Witnesses NOT Portrayed.

John Callagan, merchant

Franklin County

By their description I think I recall the two men, but don't ever remember them providing me with their names. At least not the ones you mentioned. They paid up front, so I don't have a record of their names in my ledger.only the items they purchased. By reviewing this I see, and now recall, that they purchased a good deal of stores on February 12th. Groceries, liquors and hardware. This included some canvas, a small floor cloth, and a couple pallets of roof shingles. The bearded one, with short

hair, said they'd be by later that afternoon with the wagon to load up the supplies. They arrived just as I was closing for the night, but threw in a small tip for my trouble. They had Horace Hardie with them. They returned in early March, without a wagon, for some minor provisions.

Horace Hardie, farmer

Franklin County

I'm an old friend of Joseph McKenzie's father. The last I saw Joseph, prior to this last winter, was around 58. I remember him well as a boy, when I lived in Jefferson County. In January he paid me five dollars for the use of an old wagon and had it for a few days. Downard was with him. They said they had some supplies they needed to deliver somewhere. I told them there was no need to pay me, but they insisted. They did take me up on my offer to help them load up their goods. Then they dropped me off at my house. I don't know where they went to after that. Downard? The few times I've met him he's always been very respectable and polite. My wife even commented on how nice he was.  I do know that Downard's grandfather put them both through school in Louisville. Joseph's father served under his Downard's grandad in the Army. If I recall, the old man kept them out of some trouble when they were

younger.

Elizabeth Keenon, housekeeper

Franklin County

Runaways, deserters and the like started disappearing anytime they went down towards the old stage stop. It was assumed that there were some outlyers or bushwackers down there. I don't know how many disappeared, only enough to where word got around that it wasn't safe to travel the old road. Folks around here use the new road if they have to get anywhere. You might ask Mr. Harlan, I believe his boy came home from the Army that way and barely escaped with his life. I think he's back from the Army now. I know at this same time, my chickens started disappearing fairly often and they wouldn't lay as many eggs as they used to.

John Campbell, toll collector on Frankfort Bridge

I think I remember the two. Only so because they had with them a drunk friend who was playing a banjo. They seemed to be having a bully time.

Captain R. Dodd

Frankfort

No, I've never heard of the two. Yes, apparently in February there were there were several rumours circulating about supposed crimes occurring in that general area. About the same time there was a change of command and due to that, or whether the reports were not found to be credible-no force was sent down to investigate it further. I was not here at the time, so I cannot say for certain.

Jasper Collins, convicted Union Army deserter

Frankfort

I was told not to go down the way of the old inn. I was told by an old negro that there was a gang of bushwackers down there up to no good. So I stayed close to the new road, but was caught. I never saw the two men you named and described.

Amos Carter, colored man

Franklin County

Yes suh, I was comin home by dat way one cold evenin. It was dark. Along de way I hear something running towards me.so I started running the other way. I was so scared at first, but was soon happy to see it was a dog. Soon it caught up with me, it was a rambunctious, smoke colored dog. It was very

playful and friendly. But then I wondered where it came from. Then two men came riding up. One of them, with long hair asked what I was doing with his dog. I says it ran up to me. I don't think he believed me at first but the other man said it was likely so and not to get swole at me. They asked me if

anyone else was with me and I said no. They asked if many folk come by that way and I said not since the new road was built. Certainly no colored folk on account of the slave catchers that used to stay in the old inn years past. They thinks the woods is haunted. They were then very quiet and stared at me and conversed amongst themselves in whispers. They asked my name and I told them. They then said, Amos, and I said, yes, we want you to forget you saw us this evening. Can you do that? And I said I could try.  They then said I could leave, but not to travel this way anymore. Well, Mr._____ boy

came home from the Army. He told a story about barely escaping with his life not far from here. He had said he traveling near the old road and was taken in by some bushwackers. He warned me not to go down there as they were up to mischief. Well, I knew exactly who he was talking about.

S. Churchill, tavern keeper

Shelbyville

Yes, they stopped by the tavern one night in early April. They seemed to be men of more than ordinary intelligence. They took to drink and stated that they were celebrating. They began talking about some dastardly figure who plagued them, but who recently died.  They seemed very pleased that this man

was out of their lives. A man sitting near, Mayfield I think was his name, started talking about the war. The pair became agitated with his opinions and began debating with the man. Mayfield pressed the issue regarding the war and the heated discussion ensued. The short haired one ordered three more drinks and I gave him the drinks he asked for; he paid for them, and passed a half pint to Mayfield; He seemed to enjoy the debate some. Mayfield, now irritated, told them he wasn't interested in speaking of the subject anymore and didn't want their drink. He poured the contents of his glass on the floor in front of them. The short haired one went towards Mayfield and struck him in the face and the other kicked him at the same time; Mayfield fell over a barrel and the long haired man chocked him while in that position; The short haired man grabbed a bottle by its neck. I was then behind the counter, came round and told him not to strike him in my establishment, that I wanted to have no fighting there, that if he wanted to fight with him he must go somewhere else; the short haired one then told me I must not interfere; I told him I did not mean to, but he would have to leave the place, he said he would not leave the place, and no man could put him out alone, and called on my colored help Dick and Sowder to help me; they came, and we got them out on the sidewalk. The pair cursed us and got on their mounts and fled into the evening. I don't believe Mayfield reported the incident and he soon left town badly bruised.

J. W. Fisher, inmate

Louisville City jail

Yes, I saw them at the tavern on a number of occasions. We knew them as Sims Carlyle and Monroe. They had a curious game where they'd have folks write on scraps of paper and have them placed under a hat. Then they'd somehow tell them what they had written. They were quite popular with this and folks

would buy them drinks. Then their little trick was found out.  They didn't come around too often after that.

W.E. Bailey, Ice cream saloon

Corner of Green and Hancock streets, Louisville

As described, I believe these are the two men who visited my establishment and purchased a great deal of my ice cream. I warned them amount the amount they were consuming. They were with several Soldiers and all seemed greatly intoxicated. Perhaps the Soldiers more than the other two. They all ate

until they were complaining of aches in their heads and stomachs and left immediately.

Edwin Barrow, Livery

Third Street, Louisville

Yes, they each left a horse here. The long haired one said his name was Monroe. I think the other one said his name was Carlyle. They paid up front for a week and said they'd return then.

James Stith

Lexington

Yes, I own the land that Downard and McKenzie were said to be at. I didn't know that they were there this winter, but had told them in the past they were welcome to stay in the old inn whenever they were in the neighbourhood. They had helped me retrieve some of my property in the past and had always seemed like upright men to me. I'm sorry to hear someone was killed there. Doesn't surprise me any-bushwackers rule the countryside. Could those two be involved? How am I to know? I haven't seen them for a year or more. Never knew them to be real violent, but heard from others they could be scrappers at times.

Peter Hagan

Harrison County, Indiana

Yes, I knew Andrew Downard and Joe McKenzie. They run me out of the state twelve years ago. I was fairly new to the area and began a side venture to make some money by rounding up fugitives. One summer I had tracked down a group of runaways and about the same time I did, Downard, McKenzie, and Cooper come riding up. They said they had claim to the group and demanded I leave. Being outnumbered I submitted, but was at the property owner's home when they arrived. He sided with me which made the trio very mad, although they never showed it in front of Mr. Stone. Later, they approached me on the street with curses and said that I better had go back to where I come from

or else. I wasn't about to be intimidated by these lowlifes.  One day I found all my dogs dead. After burying them, I heard gun shots and the ground around me spit up dirt. I saw gun smoke coming from the trees and could hear men laughing. I determined that they were trying to assassinate me.  I went

to the law to file charges but the prosecutor said he didn't have enough to bring them up on charges. Despite my protest, he said there was nothing he could do as I never actually saw who was shooting at me. I don't know if there was any truth to that excuse or not, but still retaining land in Indiana I found it best to move my family back across the river.

Louis Greenwell

Pitts Point

I know the two. Back when they were younger they were a rowdy pair and could get mean. You wouldn't know it by talking with them though. No sir. They could be right friendly but then they'd work over a fellow-like it was a big joke. Then they'd act like nothing happened and go back to their jolly,

friendly selves. I'm ashamed to say that I aided them a time or two. Never seen them get into real trouble. Downard's grandfather was influential in the area. He's got some money. I recently heard he was over in Europe somewhere on a grand tour. I was in the same business of slave catching and worked with the two pretty regular for a short while. We fell out about five years ago. We had retaken some property that had escaped into Indiana. They told me there was no need to come back with them to claim the reward money. I took the hint. Especially after what happened to Pete Hagan. I remember Coop from back in the day. We all used to hideout in this old deserted log cabin that used to be a stage stop over in Franklin County. Cooper was no better than Downard and McKenzie. Cooper wasn't as friendly, but wasn't too bad I reckon. Knew the three had a falling out after Downard's negro,

Hambone, was killed.  I never saw Coop after that, but I think before the Hambone incident they got along pretty well. Wouldn't surprise me if the pair killed Coop over that whole deal. Threats were being made by all of them. So much, a lot of us cleared away from them for a bit.

Hugh Sparks

West Point, Ky

I know why they left the county, sure. Last November or December they got themselves in a bad mess. Owen Garrett and his new gang was riding through the neighborhood raising all sorts of trouble. They came up to Downards place one afternoon. On that day Downard and McKenzie were entertaining some

lady friends and having an outdoor picnic of sorts. For some reason, Garrett threatened the lot. Apparently their politics was put into question. Personally, I never really heard either of them talk of politics too much. Suppose they'd be considered Union men nowdays.but I don't know. Things were about to get hot, when a rider flew to the scene talking about an Army patrol. As Garrett's gang were leaving, Downard or McKenzie took a parting shot at them and apparently wounded one of the gang. Garrett vowed he'd return and finish the matter himself. Very soon after Downard and McKenzie,

fearing for their safety, left the neighborhood saying they'd be back as soon as they received word of it being safe. I heard later that the man they shot died. Now I can't say for sure what happened, but one of Garrett's men was found dead in a burned cabin shortly after. Being a bushwacker, no one really cared to place blame on anyone. While Garrett has never caught up with Downard and McKenzie, he burned down Downard's house and John Culley's place. They drug Culley out and hung him. Culley had been at the party that one afternoon. McKenzie's house was set on fire, but due to a storm it didn't burn down. Its badly damaged though and not fit to live in.